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Given the information, I feel that every individual should have the right to choose what they believe.

That's correct, but we call it Mark to reference it.

You might also enjoy Alex O'Connor's channel. I think he's changing it to the CosmicSkeptic, but religion and religious debates are his jam.

I know many scholars and intelligent individuals who are less concerned with their appearance and more concerned with ideas.

So do I, so do I!nstill that s no excuse to look sloppy in a public forum just to look professorial, Even Dr. Albert tried to look decent in his more formal pictures.

@@conradbulos6164 It was an impromptu interview at the time, but would definitely invest in a stylist moving forward. Still I think our video is one of the better resolution/sound captures of Dr. Carrier.

I like his hair.

@@dayofthejackyl Looking at the current hair styles of young men, he could have been a head of his time....pun intended

I agree. Storytelling was how they navigated reality, incorporating God or the gods into their narratives. While browsing a website that celebrates feast days for Catholic saints, I noticed that the older the saint, the more miraculous events are attributed to them.

What is life everlasting? It does not mean the hereafter. Everlasting and eternal in the Greek means "without beginning and end." What is life without a beginning or ending? Based on a Gospel definition, John defines "life everlasting" as KNOWING the Father and the Son. So it is knowledge, not some eternal reward or punishment.

@@11thstory αἰώνιος from old greek also means : perpetual, eternal, everlasting. I will ask you a logical question. Are the angels immortal according to the Christian dogma ?

@@boldisorstefan9020 yes, always was, is and will be. That’s the idea. Everything is in God or Christ if you will. The Alpha and Omega.

@@11thstory Well, you might have not understood my point. God is not eternal as we humans perceive eternity. God is an atemporal being, which means he existed before time existed. So, when God promises the everlasting life, it means that our life will be eternal in the sense of perpetual duration (God is not subject to duration). Thus we will be subject to duration, but without death and suffering.

@@boldisorstefan9020 I understand your point, but differ in the connotation of the phrase “life eternal” based on its use in the NT.

Dean seemed pretty logical and rational during our off camera interview. He's looking at statistics/math that points to something greater than chance when tested. Correlation does not imply Causation. Speaking of statistics, Pharmaceutical companies get away with very misleading claims based on biased stats!

@@11thstory my thing is none of this shit ever leads to anything yeah ppl may have synchronicities & dreams but do they ever really mount up or lead anywhere? It’s always just a hunch & somebody who added meaning sorry but I refuse to believe in fantasy

@@Notyourmanicpixiedreamgirl I don’t think it has to lead to anywhere or have meaning. It could just be a fabric of reality. Our perception may open up for a time to glimpse a quantum event. If you zoom out far enough we maybe floating in eternity. Reality is stranger than fiction.

Material reality can be stranger than any narrative, after-all we are a planet rotating around a star that rotates around a galaxy that rotates around a universe, that rotates around? If that isn't a profound mystery, I don't know what is.

@@11thstory physical material producing consciousness is indeed stranger than any narrative. This of course doesn’t mean therefore Christianity is true. But it does point to religion/spirituality in general having an important truth to it.

@@tookie36 Thank you for the comments! We have a short documentary on our channel on the topic of Consciousness called The Deeper You Go. ruclips.net/video/DZeRP16UAAg/видео.htmlsi=y5hgGDOjTVYLctOK Also look up Donald Hoffman and/or Bernardo Kastrup. They have very interesting ideas about Consciousness.

@@11thstory I too enjoy those guys haha but I think the problem we have in the west is not taking eastern thought seriously. Such as the Vedanta schools. Swami Sarvapriyananda is my favorite on RUclips and I think he really shows the depth on consciousness studies that have been going on in the East for 1000s of years. And is talked about by our western philosophers but not actually studied bc in the west we don’t put any faith in that kind of study

@@tookie36 Yes, humans for thousands of years have cultivated practices to study (subjectively) states of consciousness. We shouldn't forget plant medicine as part of that discovery.

Interesting! The gospels were written long before the Roman Catholic Church adopted Christianity as its official state religion. I recall reading about the philosophical differences between Catholics and Protestants regarding the New Testament. Catholic doctrine emphasizes the community of believers and the traditions from which the gospels and letters were formed. For Catholics, the written word emerged from this community and tradition. In contrast, Protestants emphasize that the written word gives birth to the community, focusing on "Sola Scriptura"-the Bible as the sole authority for Christian faith and practice. This is not true for Catholicism. After Luther, Christianity fragmented into many denominations. The invention of the printing press allowed the Bible to be translated into various languages, leading to numerous interpretations. Control shifted from the church hierarchy to the layperson, granting everyone a "personal" relationship with the Bible, despite potential misinterpretations and a lack of knowledge of Greek, Latin, historical context, and tradition. This created a metaphorical Babylon or the Twitter of its day! "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a TOWER, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." One Hebrew definition for the word TOWER (מִגדָל) is "elevated stage or pulpit."

@@11thstory it all depends on traditions and translations. One could say Christ began the Catholic Church. Gave power to the disciples. Holy Spirit guided the authors. And there’s been an uncorrupted thread of Christianity preserved in the Catholic Church. Obviously this is disputed by everyone. But within the gospel of mark there is Jesus is God. The trinity. Discipleship. Eucharist. Death/ressurection. Which is all very cool for it being such an early writing that was preserved for so long

​@@tookie36 That is clearly the stance of the Catholic Church. From Jesus to Peter to the Emperor/Pope, the church’s history and line of succession, as recorded by Eusebius, are questionable. Eusebius, motivated by his newfound power under Roman influence, presents a biased account. During his time, church leaders were still debating the divinity of Jesus. In my reading of the Gospel of Mark, Jesus is not portrayed as God or part of a Trinity. Instead, he is seen as divinely appointed or filled with the Spirit. It is in the Gospel of John, which is more ambiguous yet leans towards declaring Jesus as a divine being.

@@11thstory marks gospel is unique in that the entire gospel is written as a parable. So it’s designed to be ambiguous. But as you uncover the message it becomes more clear. Little things like Jesus saying “be clean”. This authoritative command is parallel to god speaking in creation. And this is how all the stories unfold. All drawing parallels back to the Old Testament but more specifically back to god in the Old Testament

@@tookie36 I agree that there is a degree of ambiguity. I appreciate your direction with the parable concept. Overall, I believe the gospel writers were delivering a message and commentary on the Mosaic law. The gospels and letters draw extensively from Genesis, suggesting that the writers were emphasizing that God's involvement with humanity predates the establishment of the Jewish religion and is inclusive of all races, harkening back to Adam and the Garden of Eden. (I will discuss this further in an upcoming video.) Moses and the prophets were reflecting on the Genesis parable. Paul, in the first chapter of Galatians, states, "And (I) profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers." He distinguishes the Jewish religion from the church of God. Paul did not derive this idea from external sources but found it revealed within the scriptures themselves. The return back to the garden experience might have been an emphasis or justification after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. It makes sense that the rise of Christianity thrived while the Romans severely persecuted those law practicing Jews throughout Judea.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention

You are welcome to make a case for that. Keep in mind, Alexandria is the second largest city in Egypt. It goes back to over 300 bc when Alexander conquered it. So you have your work cut out.

Please share! Thank you

Are you speaking about the 1st-century "Council of Jabneh?" The Council of Nicea was to settle a debate on the divinity of Jesus which produced the Nicene Creed doctrine. A good book that details this is "When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome" by Richard E. Rubenstein. Carrier was correct that the NT took centuries before it was formed.

You obviously did not watch the video and don’t want to hear the evidence against your favorite mythical figure.

@@dayofthejackyl lol

The Greek word Gospel meaning "Good News" was first used to describe the Roman Caesar Augustus, not Jesus. It was used before the creation of the NT. Most likely Christians co-opted and subverted the meaning. "Since Providence, which has ordered all things and is deeply interested in our life, has set in most perfect order by giving us Augustus, whom she filled with virtue that he might benefit humankind, sending him as a savior, both for us and for our descendants, that he might end war and arrange all things ... and since the birthday of the god Augustus was the beginning of the good tidings (Gospel) for the world that came by reason of him.”

@@11thstory haha…..the only really good news is found in Christ. Not Dick Carrier.

​@@michaelbrickley2443 What we call the four Gospels today were originally unnamed but given those titles sometime in the second century.

@@11thstory believe what you choose. I am a living, breathing miracle. Follow man or follow the God of the universe. That’s why we have free will. Carrier is a fool

@@michaelbrickley2443 We are looking critically at the historical documents which are written by men. Carrier provides additional cultural context. For many Christian believers it adds to their understanding and doesn't necessarily threaten or take away their belief. Christianity was not born in a vacuum, but had many influences that have shaped it throughout history.

There’s a continuum of belief based on evidence and even Carrier acknowledges that there’s a chance of a historical Jesus. However It’s his analysis of the character as portrayed in the gospels and letters. What is true about the narrative? Obviously the gospels are articulating ideas based on a real person’s voice or voices even if you don’t believe in the events. The Jesus Seminar attributes a fraction of the gospel dialogue to a historical person. I lean toward Christianity as originating as a Hellenized Jewish movement among the educated. The churches in 1st century Greece already seem like established centers. The idea that it spread from inarticulate fishermen in Galilee and traveled that far that fast with a developed theological structure seems off.

Good point. When the letters or gospels speak of scripture they are referencing the Torah, prophets or songs of praise. There are some references in the Bible of books that didn’t survive the current cano n or no longer exist.

@@11thstory thanks for the response. I figured Paul was referencing the OT, but it's confusing because many would argue that Jesus did not live or die in accordance with the OT prophecies as the Jewish messiah

@@zacshifler In the gospels there are references/interpretations of Jesus fulfilling an OT scripture. The gospel of John specifically has many references during the passion episode. There is no specific reference in the OT that states that God will raise Jesus or a specific individual from the dead. The "rising up" or the only "third day" references are regarding a group, not an individual. Hosea Chapter 6: "Come, let us return to the LORD; for he has torn us, that he may heal us; he has struck us down, and he will bind us up. After two days he will revive US; on the third day he will raise US up, that we may live before him."

@@11thstory thanks for the Hosea reference. I did not know that

We have the full Gospel According to Carrier interview without the music on the channel.

@@11thstory yesss perfect thank you haha

You make some valid points. Jewish beliefs also had a mystical understanding of the resurrection as well. In the gospel of Luke chapter 20 Jesus actually corrects the religious leaders about their understanding a physical resurrection indicating the all are alive in God. "For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him." In the gospel of John 11 Jesus again corrects Martha's understanding of a physical event, " I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." That is a present tense understanding, not something of a future event.

Never heard that one. Dr. Radin and the Institute of Noetic Sciences conduct scientific research on psychic individuals.

Carrier and Dr. Price have both stated that one can question or not believe in the historicity of Jesus and still believe in a God. I think Carrier makes an argument that the religion of Christianity was one cultural manifestation of the mystery cults that existed in that area of the world. Your idea of Jesus being a cultural manifestation of a savior or god like being within Hellenistic Judaism and that many other cultures have like beings or gods that are similar could have some ground. People worship Buddha and like entities. Throughout human history, people have come to worship or see God in our image and/or having a special relationship with a particular human. Much of humanity used to think that the earth was the center of the universe, so I don't know if belief necessarily equates with truth.

@@11thstory Belief does not equate with truth, you're right. I only put out my comment in response to the many people in the comment section who are convinced this historical account definitively negates the existence of a God or the veracity of Christianity as an accurate revelation of God. I myself did not come to believe in God through the validity of any set of historical facts. I came to believe in God by developing a relationship with Him, and that's what I think most moderns don't understand. We tend to think that faith in God requires that we ascribe to a set of verifiable propositions about the material world. I came to understand, after lots of trial and error, that faith in God actually emerges when we start communicating with Him through prayer and our internal monologue and start mimicking His nature through practices of restraint (i.e. fasting, abstinence, silence, etc.). And this isn't a controversial approach. Even in the Greek classical tradition we see Socrates referring to a "daemon" with whom he is engaged in dialogue.

@@pjvillalonga1701 You are correct that some try to equate the two. This video does not make an argument for or against the existence of God, only positing an explanation for it's birth and offering another look at the geographical and cultural milieu. Definitely certain practices can provide a subjective (communal) experiences which are profound. Many people who have had such experiences usually state that words fall short. Revelation is also something that comes through to science as well. Perhaps we don't completely understand the revelations of the 1st century Christians. I am hoping to provide some more video content that may offer other reasons in which why or how early Christians understood or framed their belief.

@@11thstory Cool, best of luck.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Understanding these books within their historical context are necessary. In this case, I think writings of NT were commentaries or interpretations of the Torah and the prophets for that time. It is interesting that various sects of Judaism were considered philosophy in the 1st century, I would say the same of the birth of Christianity. Today we have lost much of the relevant meaning because we have lifted those passages out of their historical context. Today we have an Anglo-Saxon/ Roman interpretation in most of our denominations. We have over 40k Christian denominations today each believing they have the truth. The majority began after the printing press and the Protestant Reformation when interpretations became rampant. Thankfully we have historians who can provide a clearer picture and challenge these orthodoxies which believes that these things happened in a vacuum.

@11thstory That's a very educated take! I hope theories like Carrier's start getting taught in schools all over the world, even if Mythicism proves to be false

@@unrecognizedtalent3432 Thank you kindly! It seems like the gospel's were the greatest hits of the time, an aggregated list of ideas, voices and even characters. Sometimes Jesus seems like a rebel, other times a Stoic philosopher, other times a branch of Pharisees and other times a mystic. Dr Price calls his character a Frankenstein's monster: bits of pieces and parts sewn together. All this could still be planted within a real historical figure.

@11thstory Jesus reminds me of King Arthur. Even if he did exist, the stories are so wildly fictitious that it's not likely that even 30% of them are accurate. IMHO

No one knows for sure what others understand. No one knows what others would rather believe. No one can read minds.

Carriers BS is what has aged poorly. Guess you don’t believe in miracles

Because religion still has a great impact on the human psyche. Its influence on our human condition is still felt and people act on it. We’re not quite living outside our planet yet and perhaps the disclosure or discovery of alien intelligence will radically alter our idea of ourselves. I agree with you that eventually this discussion will be less important as time moves as older generation that was greatly impacted by a religious upbringing will be gone. If it’s any indication on my analytics, 99.9% of my channels audience is over 35.

There is a difference between questioning the narrative of gospel stories and believing in a creator. Many Christians do not delve into the historical climate or culture in which the Gospels were born. Thankfully we have historians, scholars and archeologists who can provide us with a broader picture of the time, even if we have some disagreements with their conclusions.

He should start a Carrier’s Hair insta page 🤣

Very astute and nuanced response. Thank you! I wonder where society would be if most individuals in the 1st century had access to a formal education, let's say Greek philosophy? The success of religious imagery and narratives may not be solely contained within the intellectual domain, but appeal and thrive within the emotional and experiential aspects of humanity.

People have solely interpreted Marx as being anti-religious, but he utilized biblical stories and thought they could be motivation for good. The story of Exodus and the struggle for freedom over an oppressor. I think some people try to substitute ideology and religion for their interpretation of reality while others try to marry both (Theocracy). We have some political representatives that value religious texts over the Constitution.

Glad you liked it!

The Jesus Seminar and scholars like Bart Ehrman would agree with you on the person of Jesus, but state that majority of the Gospels were written from a second hand account at a later time and have been altered significantly. I am currently reading, "After Jesus, Before Christianity" by authors from the Jesus Seminar. Carrier agrees that what would become Christianity had Jewish roots, it's the character of Jesus and the gospel narratives that are in dispute. Carrier also believes that Christianity was heavily influenced by other cults and ideas of the day within and outside of Judaism. There's also the idea that Christianity or elements of it's belief or practice system preceded Jesus or the Gospel narratives as a Hellenistic/Jewish cult. That the movement started among Greek believers. The Gospels were not written in Aramaic, but Greek. The churches in Paul's epistles seem well established and progressive in their theology...hardly a few years removed from a bunch of illiterate fishermen. Jesus is seen as an avatar for the movement. There are a few individuals like Robert Price and Lena Einhorn, who we've interviewed, that believe that the character of Jesus was pulled from an individual or a conglomerate of Jewish rebel leaders during the Jewish Roman war. The author assimilates the events of these individuals within the gospel.